"When this champion removes a highlited unit" effects and Neferata?

So a number of champions have an effect that triggers when they remove a highlighted unit, our Bloody Vampire Queen comes to mind. Her exact effect states: "When this champion removes a highlited unit, move 1 vampire unit from your discard pile to your hand".

Our group tought that it applies to her abilities(Devour), spells(Soul Feast) and units(Black Knight and number of others) and we played it that way until we saw the Neferata card and her ability:
"When this champion, or a Spell or a Unit controlled by this champion removes a highlighted unit... yadda yadda, some effect".

Does this mean that only abilities count as long as the skill specifies "this champion" - since they single out units and spells in Neferata textbox and nowhere else?
Does it mean that Bloody Vampire Queen only triggers from using Devour and nothing else? Or is it just a case of sloppy wording - the "units and spells controlled by Neferata" part is redundant and it works the same for all abilities of this type?

PS one more question. Does a unit that is deployed count as being played? For example my Born from Blood trigges, I search for Feasting Vargheist and deploy it. Can I later, on the same turn, play a second feasting Vargheist from my hand?

Comments

  • UKDreadnaughtUKDreadnaught Posts: 121Moderator Mod
    edited August 2018

    This is a good question because another Death one which is worded differently would be: Spirit Torment : When This Champion, Or a card controlled by this champion removes a highlighted unit gain 2 health.

    So yeah if they are to be taken as worded it would lead you to believe that it is only Devour that Bloody Vampire Queen can use personally i always thought any unit, spell or Ability was under the control of the champion so i would have assumed soul feast and black knight etc would also work.

    This is a hard one to call as ive seen the same effect worded differently on other cards also

    As for the 2nd question, I believe you would not be able to play the feasting Vargheist twice as you cannot play the same card in a single turn (a turn covers all phases)

    of course this is my interpretation of it and our resident rules master, @Issakian will be best to clear this up when possible.

  • @bordone said:
    PS one more question. Does a unit that is deployed count as being played? For example my Born from Blood trigges, I search for Feasting Vargheist and deploy it. Can I later, on the same turn, play a second feasting Vargheist from my hand?

    I'd say no, the card uses the keyword [Deploy] which is basically the same thing as deploying from hand, so I assume it would count as your Varg deploy for that turn. Personal interpretation but yeah :o

    As for the first question... Hmm yeah it's tricky, I'd maybe so noooo? Since as you state, it's herself, spells or units... Where as Spirit Torment is worded differently. But I WANT to say it does work, but yeah can't be sure...

    Good questions! These are defo the type of questions I'd like rulings on

  • IssakianIssakian Posts: 52 Mod

    Hi All
    This has already come up in the General Discussion area:
    https://forum.warhammerchampions.com/discussion/316/neferata-mortarch-of-blood-and-golden-rule#latest

    Hopefully that will answer it.

    Also I am fairly sure that if you deploy a unit via a card effect that happens in the battlefield phase, you can still play a copy of that unit in the action phase. I will check that one.

  • stubobjstubobj Posts: 44

    Maybe im missing it in that thread but it doesnt explain the difference in the wording on the 3 different champions. That thread explains triggers interrupting other triggers.

    Whats the difference between these 3?

    When this champion, or a card controlled by this champion, 'Removes'...

    When this champion, or a spell or unit controlled by this champion, 'Removes'...

    When this champion 'Removes'....

  • bordonebordone Posts: 3
    Thanks for your time @Issakian I have read the thread but as @stubobj has mentioned, my problem is with the sloppy wording of Neferata and similar effects and their implications. not the order of her triggers.
  • IssakianIssakian Posts: 52 Mod

    I think it may just be inconsistent wording, take all 3 to mean the same for the time being, the champions trigger from spells, units, abilities and blessings.

  • porkeyporkey Posts: 5
    Sorry no idea how to do quotes😄

    When this champion, or a card controlled by this champion, 'Removes'...

    any Action card controlled by champion(spell unit or ability)

    When this champion, or a spell or unit controlled by this champion, 'Removes'...

    Cannot use ability cards to activate

    When this champion 'Removes'....

    I have no idea as those champions don't remove cards without action cards
  • IssakianIssakian Posts: 52 Mod

    All 3 mean the same thing, the Champions are activated by Spells, Units and Ability Cards.

  • stubobjstubobj Posts: 44

    Thanks so much for clearing that up Issakian!

  • Neffy basically works at the point on removal she Interjects the action card that did the Removal and replaces that cards with a Vampire (if able).

    for example, she channelled Soul fest turn 1 to remove the enemies Athwering Scout, turn 2 she removing is Neffys effect triggers replacing soul feast with a Vargeist. how every she doesn't get the heal off SF due to it no longer exists on the board.

    because she replaces all removal cards at the point of removal she dose get the extra effects of that card is she replaces said card.

    she doesn't get the following effects:
    dmg from Black knight
    dmg and +1 action from Frenzied Vargeist
    Heal from Soul Feast
    Unit resuffle from Devour
    Extra vampire from Born from Blood


    unless she has no vampirein hand or discard she dose get those effect due to her interection
  • RavinsildRavinsild Posts: 1
    Yeah it makes her really difficult to play with because she removes so much value from so many cards in the app.

    I love her model and the card artwork and just her in general but she’s difficult to play with.
  • She will be top their is death ever get mass removal
  • FYI the unit shuffle from Devour does trigger as the new vampire placement does not overwrite the ability card (as that is played on the champion and not placed in the unit/spell slot)

  • Thank you for correcting me I realise that as soon as I need post as though it is going to the Limbo space and are not played on the action part of the the board and that is only the advantage that she can get as she doesn't gain the benefits of any other cards that remove

  • VhenlarVhenlar Posts: 28

    Thanks for explaining!

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