Removing Ethereal Horde

Hi! It's my first post here.
Yesterday while playing a Death vs Death matchup in the app I "removed" Ethereal Horde, which has a Last Stand effect that moves it back to the hand of the opponent, with my vanpire champion. Than i used Bloody Thirst and... nothing happend. Is it a bug or a feature? Removed unit didn't get into discard pile after all, but it still was wiped off the board. So was was it "removed" or not?

Comments

  • my guess is the ethereal hordes last stand triggers and the unit is technically never removed. there is a limbo area that cards "wait" in while their last stand triggers so what is probably happening is the ethereal horde is back in your hand before it would be "removed".

  • ChampionChampion Posts: 415 ✭✭✭
    edited September 2018

    For our convenience

  • ChampionChampion Posts: 415 ✭✭✭

    @nechrist

    Welcome to the forums. You did the right thing :)

    Because you didn’t specify how you attempted to remove the Ethereal Horde I can’t give you a proper explanation.

    But it is clear no removal took place.

    Picture this:

    Nechrist attempts a removal.

    Remove: Remove a card of a specified type from play and discard it.

    2.7.2: A card’s effects do not resolve immediately; before they do, any other effects that may trigger as a result of playing that card (or using its Heroic Act) are checked in Standard Order.

    The Ethereal Horde triggers its Last Stand. “Move this to your hand.”

    Last Stand: The effect following ‘Last Stand’ triggers if a Unit is about to be ‘Removed’. Note that the ‘Last Stand’ effect is resolved before the ‘Remove’ happens, so it is still on the board at this time.

    So the Removal action has now been changed to Move action. (“Move this to your hand.”)

    Notice how the Ethereal Horde is not in the discard pile, it is in the opponent’s hand. Thus confirming no Removal took place.

    You then play Bloody Thirst. “Can only be Played by a Vampire Champion. If this Champion has Removed a highlighted Unit this turn, gain 6 health.”

    2.2.2: The effects of a card are not optional, unless a card says they are. You always do as much as you can when you play a card (not being able to do part, or all of a card’s effects does not by itself stop the card from being played.)

    As discussed you did not Remove a Highlighted Unit, it was moved. So the card does not grant you any health.

    I hope that helps.

  • it is classed as removed as that what triggers the last stand
  • ChampionChampion Posts: 415 ✭✭✭

    it is classed as removed as that what triggers the last stand

    Oh no it isn't.
    :)

  • nechristnechrist Posts: 6
    @Champion , thank You. Great clarification. I get it now.
  • The removal is cancelled by the Last Stand. It's an unintuitive part of the rule, but you'll see if too if you try to remove a Transmogrifying Flamer to fulfill a removal quest.

    Last Stand triggers before the remove completes.
    The card is no longer in play after that.
    The removal fizzles.

  • SirEnitySirEnity Posts: 5
    Great question and great clarification. Many thanks
  • VhenlarVhenlar Posts: 28
    That was helpful!
  • MaxTeranousMaxTeranous Posts: 13
    Yep thanks!
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